Sandhu

=Sarwan S. Sandhu=

Podcast
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BIOGRAPHICAL/GEOGRAPHICAL NOTE
Dr. Sarwan S. Sandhu was born in 1940 in a small town in Punjab, India. Growing up as a boy, his family was neither rich nor poor and he never went to bed hungry. He was 7 years old when India became an independent nation and he may have witnessed some brutal struggles at this time, although, he did not comment on this during the interview. Dr. Sandhu received a very well education compared to the average student in India who stopped going to school at age 11. Dr. Sandhu graduated from the local high school and he received a B.Sc. in Science in 1961 and a B.Sc. in Chemical Engineering in 1966 from Punjab University, India. He also taught as a lecturer at Punjab University from 1961 to 1966. He then moved to Canada in 1967and received a M.Sc. in Chemical Engineering from the University of New Brunswick, Canada in 1970. Dr. Sandhu then moved to England in 1970 and in 1973 he received a D.I.C. and a Ph.D. in Engineering from Imperial College, University of London, England. After reading about the U.S.A, Dr. Sandhu decided to move to the Boston, Massachusetts in 1973 and was employed at a small company near MIT. After a year and a half with this company, he was hired to work in the Energy Laboratory of MIT. Wanting to be more independent, in 1980, Dr. Sandhu accepted a job at the University of Dayton in Ohio as a Chemical Engineering Professor.

Dr. Sandhu is an U.S. immigrant from Punjab, India which is in the northwest part of India. India, being in southern Asia, is surrounded by other countries like China and Pakistan, but is also mostly surrounded by the Bay of Bengal, and the Arabian Sea. The Punjab area of India is fertile and agriculture is its largest industry. The average life expectancy in India is 66 years compared to the average life expectancy for a U.S. citizen of 78 years. The most popular religion in India is Hinduism for about 80% of the population and Sikhism is the most popular religion in Punjab. India is the second largest country population wise, about 1.1 billion, second only to China at 1.3 billion. India is a federal republic and their legal system is a common law system based on the English model. Their legislative system is parliamentary and is similar to Great Britain’s.

=Creative Writing=

**Where the Desert Lies**
Step after step > each grain a tiny burning > **amber** > Feet blistering >> turning black like volcanic >> **stone** >> Lies of the desert appear >>> the horizon a line in the >>> **sand** >>> Sun glares down >>>> hiding behind me my >>>> **shadow** >>>> Rays of amorphous light >>>>> form to trick my >>>>> **eye** >>>>> Lies from >>>>>> where the desert >>>>>> **lies**

**Speed of Burning Flesh**
The cracking of the sand on my feet at each step, the deposit of tiny grains, and the dead skin, I must move fast, faster than the speed of burning flesh, in a constant brum-brum rhythm. My heart pleads to stop, my feet must go on. I dare to stop after losing my rhythm, heart screaming, “Thank God!”, feet screaming, “Oh, God!”, I jump back and forth, feet playing hot potato with the sand.

I find myself falling, momentarily stunned, down the dune landing on my rump down the slope. As my butt screams, “Fire! Fire!” I catch a glimpse of my feet, brown as a coconut. Great. I find myself near the end of the slope, preparing my feet; I expect them to burst into flames on impact. Five. Four. Three. Two…Plop! Feet first, then knees, then face.

I touch the sand trying to find my buried head. I instinctively recoil, a false blaze sizzles my fingertips. I search for signs of burning. None. My hand confused, touched again, no fire. I set both hands down, pulled my head out of the sand, and sat down enjoying the run of grains between my fingers.

//Author’s Note:// //In “Where the Desert Lies”, there are many metaphors I used to describe my immigrants’ experience and feelings. While in the middle of the desert, my immigrant saw illusions caused by the desert called a mirage. These lies are representations of lies told of the U.S.//

//In “Speed of Burning Flesh”, there are many metaphors I used to describe my immigrants’ experience and feelings. The hot burning of the sand is to symbolize the type of country India is. The cooler enjoyable sand is to symbolize the type of country the U.S. is. (My immigrants’ words, not mine.)//

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Jordan Fellner

Sarwan S. Sandhu

Fellner: What country did you come from?

Sandhu: From India

Fellner: Why did you come to the U.S.?

Sandhu: Because, I read U.S. Constitution in the library where I was employed in the University in India [Punjab University] and I was very much impressed by that Constitution and I thought political system of this country was better than the so-called democratic political system of India at that time. So, that was one major factor and other was I thought and also my ex-professors caused me to come here so that I can teach and perform research with freedom. So, those were two main factors.

Fellner: How old were you when you came to the U.S.?

Sandhu: I was 33 years old.

Fellner: What was your education like in India; did you complete high school or did you just finish elementary school like most people of your country did?

Sandhu: In India, I received two bachelors degrees in India and I was already hired as a lecturer in a university to teach at university level. Then, of course, my Ph.D. is from the University of London and I came to this country after receiving that Ph.D. degree to teach and to do research with freedom as I said before.

Fellner: How did you arrive at the U.S.?

Sandhu: By plane.

Fellner: What was your journey like, did you receive any troubles?

Sandhu: Not really.

Fellner: When you got here, what port did you arrive at?

Sandhu: Boston

Fellner: Did you have to take the citizenship test when you got there?

Sandhu: No not at that time. You get citizenship after five years, so, at that time I got what they say green card and then I got citizenship after five years in Boston.

Fellner: How did you go from Boston to the University of Dayton?

Sandhu: Well, when I came to Boston, I first worked for a small company which is close to MIT or Harvard, you know university, and for about year and a half and then what happen was one professor at MIT hired me to help him and I worked as scientist slash chemical engineer in the Energy Laboratory of MIT. And then after that I applied for teaching position at the University of Dayton in 1980 and they accepted me and then I came here as Assistant Professor in 1980.

Fellner: So, well no offense to the University of Dayton, but isn’t MIT a better university than the University of Dayton?

Sandhu: Well, see, there are a number of things, you see, because I was not a professor there, keep in mind, I was a scientist slash chemical engineer and at MIT, what I found was that most of the professors were running around (laughs), I should say, to get money and I thought that I should be very independent (noise of soda can opening) to teach and do research. That is the reason I came, not for money and main reason was I wanted to be independent. Whether I am truly independent or not that’s separate story, but, at that time that was my thought.

Fellner: Could you describe in detail of what your childhood was like?

Sandhu: (retrospective) My childhood I would say childhood of any child in this country and my parents paid a good deal of attention to me and my other brothers. Although we were not very rich, but were not also very poor, we could eat and be free and we had land in India at that time, big houses also by the way, although may not be such nice houses, but, they were houses. So, there was a good deal of freedom in a way in our house I would say.

Fellner: So, what hardships did you have in India opposed to the hardships that you probably wouldn’t have had in the U.S.?

Sandhu: Well, no matter where one is normally there are hardships of one kind or another. In India, you might say, that hardship was sometime to get work done through bureaucratic system meaning that the people who are in the government. At that time I used to think that they are very corrupt unless you give them the money, (laughs) they will not do any work which they are supposed to do, but, they would not do. So, that was you can think one kind of hardship in India. And other kind, I might say, in those days, I’m talking about my days when I was young, that there were not roads and there not very many buses. So, in my school days, particularly even going up to 8th grade, I had to walk on foot at least 2 and ½ miles one way and then when I went to high school which mean 9th and 10th grade then I had to walk almost 6 to 7 miles one way and because bicycle I had some thief stole that bicycle from my school when it was in parking place you see, so now you see the story, so that was hardship in India. Hardships here at this time there are always some hardships you can say, but, still I think our system here is little better, or I can say much better than bureaucratic system in India at that time, I don’t know what the situation is now though because I have not gone to India for example for the last 13 and ½ years this is the 14th year I will be going and situation may be different [Dr. Sandhu is traveling to India in the middle of December 2011 for a few weeks].

Fellner: I imagine you were a very fit boy when you were a child ... from all that walking.

Sandhu: Yes I was fit (laughter), of course I was fit and I had to carry, I can show you the more books than probably you carry on my back (searching for various books) and I used to, try to be very fit, and also it used to be hot over there, keep in mind, and then while coming back after the school, let’s take the case of 8th grade school. So, when the school would end around 3:30 P.M. in the month of June you know how hot it is, it will be more than 100 degree Fahrenheit and in those days, on those paths, there used to be sand also, sand becomes very hot, and if you are walking, then you can see blisters appearing on your feet, (unintelligible), so my strategy used to be, while coming back, I would sit underneath tree, start working on the problem, first math, finish the homework on math, every day that we use to have homework, finish that, then use to come English, English was number two because English was third language, we had to read three language in the middle school and English was used to be second, so I would finish the English work, number two, then third used to come Science, or Science used to number second, sorry, Science number second that was my scheme, and I would finish Science work, then comes to English work, then used to come History and Geography. So finish that, then would come the other languages such as my provincial language, Punjabi, and then third language, the so-called India’s national language, Hindi. So, finish your homework, and then I keep on moving and then by the time sun would go down, I would have finished all the work. And then I would eat at home and then again go to study if work was not finished because we used to be tested next day in every class and students used to be beaten, like you, with bamboo stick, I’m telling you that is a real story (pounds desk).

Fellner: Do you feel that the education that you got would be better or worse than the education in America at that time?

Sandhu: Well, I did not know much about, school education; you are talking about school education right? School education of India was equivalent to school education in England or Great Britain, because that is English system, so, it’s very rigorous system, so if students don’t work very hard, they will never get through whether you are in England or you were in England, I should say I don’t know what the situation is now, or you were in Indie. In India, because there was huge population, schools were harder, because they did not want to take those guys who were not extremely good. There are good schools here as Centerville High School, because niece, daughter of my own brother-in-law, she has been accepted to medical school without any problem and she is very bright, but, the point is, on average I am seeing that probably schools are not that good. Now good and bad is a relative term you see and in that context I would say, probably, there were bad schools also over there, but, if you are in bad school you will never get diploma (pounds desk), you will never get through 10th grade. Those were the days at that time because you have to sit the whole state exam and you had to pass that if you don’t pass that whether you are in school A, B, or Z (hits desk), doesn’t matter you will not get diploma. Even if you stay 15 years in the high school and there were some people, I mean sons of rich parents who were if not 10 years at least they were repeating 10th grade, when I was in the 10th grade, they were in the 5th year [repeating the 10th grade five times], sitting in the same classes, because if you don’t get through the state exam, you don’t get diploma. So, that was the standard at that time, I don’t know what the situation is now though.

Fellner: Judging on that, do you like the U.S. better than India or do you like India better than the U.S., education wise?

Sandhu: Education wise, I’m at the university level, so at the university level, I think in this country there are very many good universities and I would also say that what I see nowadays in India, at the university level, there are very many good universities in India, too. But there are bad universities in India, too, I have not seen yet, but now there are many universities in India and some people are telling me that they have, those universities have made universities as business kind of universities meaning that because richer people they send their kids to rich university, give them a diploma, but that is not good, but in India also, there are those universities equivalent too are even better than MIT’s nowadays as I read it on an international scale. You cannot say education is better or on average basis better here or there. I would say probably the same that’s what I could say at this time.

Fellner: Your personal experience, which country do you like better, U.S. or India, which government is stronger or friendlier?

Sandhu: I would say, at lower level, I think corruption is less than I saw in India while I was in India, I left India a long time ago, ’67 actually, so in that context I would say it is better, but, because having experience of so many years, starting from ’73 until now of this country and I do see some corruption, you know, and even at higher level, but, at lower level if it is there it does not affect me that much as it would have affected me when I was India, so corruption side. On the other side, I think that things can be done here with a, there are two ways of stating, things can be done here at lower level with reasonable honesty in comparison with the situation when I was there in India. Other thing is economics; I think that is what you are probably thinking right? Although, I was not born in a so-called very rich family, but, in our family we had enough food to eat and live, so, I never thought about money when I was India, now I am here, I still do not think about money as the main factor to live happily and so that is secondary. Although I did not have car in India (laughs), nowadays I have car in India [I think he means U.S.], so in India, it means even after my graduation after acquiring that job in the university as a junior lecturer, I had to travel by bus and if I was coming home from that university, which is roughly more than 100 miles from the place where I was born. So I had to spend almost full day to reach home, and here, I can now travel by car in Lexus car (laughs) easily, that is what I would say. But, other you can say that I mean in those days as far as climate in India is concerned, although hot, but air was pure, I’m talking about my days so it means a long time ago, before ’67. Of course in U.S. you know that due to the EPA regulations, Environmental Protection Agency regulations, air is still kept clean. But in India nowadays, I have heard, I am going to see it when I go to India in December, the situation they say that a lot many cars nowadays, a lot many roads also, so there is more pollution you see, whether they are trying to handle pollution problem or not I can’t say much, but, I still see that in this country situation overall is better than India, at least what I know about India at that time.

Fellner: When you left India, did you have any emotional feelings about leaving it, did you leave your family behind?

Sandhu: Family, I brought my wife and children when I came from England, keep in mind. There wasn’t any feeling because my children was with me, my wife was with me, (taps on desk) my brothers were in India and my mother was also in India and my father and I was thinking to bring my parents very immediately, but, because of the condition they were old, my mother did not want to travel because of her health, see she couldn’t sit in the plane you know there is kerosene oil when burns so she used to become upset. Although, my father wanted to come because he used to drink a little bit what is it you call wine or whiskey, he thought it would be a great country (pounds desk) for him to come although he was not a person to drink all the time, I mean occasionally. So, unfortunately he couldn’t come because the year I was ready to fill papers for their immigration, so suddenly he passed away at home. So that was had happened.

Fellner: Did you learn mostly about the U.S. in India or what kind of gave you the push-over idea of “hey, let’s go to America”?

Sandhu: I told you at the very beginning that I read American Constitution and what I read about America, well there were books about America, right, culture, everything is there. Plus, I thought there were people of all kinds and there is equality between men and women, whether it is true on 100% basis on not, I thought this is a great country. That was actually I told you that I read that was major factor when I made decision to come to this country.

Fellner: What part of India did you come from?

Sandhu: I come from northwest and name of the state is Punjab state. Punjab; I can write it for you. I will write that way the way we used to write in those days, nowadays, they have changed the spelling a little bit (writing on paper). By the way, this word has meaning, it has meaning. First of all, Jordan, the languages of India, current languages, there are 14 officially recognized in Indian Constitution. They have all come from Sanskrit. And my language, Sanskrit, basically was developed in the region I come from and then Punjabi language is part of that and as far as name Punjab is concerned, first, 1, 2, 3, 4, Punj, this means equivalent to five, five (pounds desk with fist). “Ah” means water, this is a Persian name, because remember that Indian was also ruled by Muslim kings, and “Ah” means water. So this use to be the land where five rivers would flow. Nowadays, all those five rivers have been distributed. So some rivers have gone to current Pakistan and some rivers flow through this state. So that is called the land of five rivers.

Fellner: What was the main language in Punjab?

Sandhu: Main language Punjabi. Just like the main language of an English person is English. Right? Englishman, English.

Fellner: What is your religion called?

Sandhu: My religion, if you want to anyway force me to say, is called (writing Sikh and disciple on a piece of paper), Sikh. Now, this also has meaning. This has great meaning. This means, one with they say, pure, other people say disciple, so in these two words, the way they explain, so there are many hidden things. So, if you want to be Sikh, other than turban or other things, you know these are dress, then it means you should be very pure in basic principles of mankind. What are the basic principles? Honesty, right? Sincerity, compassion. Right? For the people around you and third, I did not think about that before, but anyway I am now thinking, and then fourth thing is that if people are hungry, you help them even by distributing your own food, which I normally do, you can ask your dad, I always ask him “eat” and sometimes I force him to eat (laughs). So, and then if somebody, somebody else try to push down a weaker person, whether economically or otherwise, if you are true Sikh you want to be on the side of weaker person, not the stronger person who is what they call tyrant or who want to snatch everything from other people. So, if you are true Sikh, then if a person who if he is sincere, honest, everything, and if he is being pressurized by other guys, you want to be on the side of the weaker person, weaker because of physical strength or weaker because of economics otherwise he Is a good person. Right? So, that is one interpretation of the so-called pure. Ok? Now, as far as discipline is concerned, it says that if one is not that much wise, if you find somebody whom you think he is wiser, and he can convey the knowledge (cell phone alarm interrupts interview). If you find, that person has certain wisdom, which you could help you Jordan, as a young man or boy, you may like to follow him, if you like. Then, you need to listen to him. Because, this is a discipline also. And then, if you find those things are helping you to grow inside, then you want keep on doing so that you can grow properly. At the end, it says that this philosophy teaches that, I’m just giving you the principles behind that, then you may call yourself Sikh or not, it doesn’t matter, other people may call you Sikh or not, it doesn’t matter, but you are good human being. See that is the bottom line of these words by the way you see. So that is why, and also it says that, you asked me religion connection, you mean God connection. Right? So, this philosophy says if there is any God, there is only one God, there is no such thing Christian God, there is no such thing Muslim God, there is no such thing Hindu God, there is no such thing Sikh God, there is only one God. If you believe, and it says that directly in that book 1400, 1500 pages book, it is the first page; definition of God. By the way, that definition of God is in the poetry form. Not prose form. So, in that context, that is what it says. But, at the end, that philosopher, this is not a very old philosophy in a way, and one can say it is the sum and substance of all the old philosophies. And, narrated in a different manner though, all philosophies of the world, great religious philosophies. Then it says you always use your brain to do the right things and then if something bad happens, that is what I am saying of course, book may not say that, then you should not blame the God, but, of course if something bad happens because we were not able to understand, the events which take place due to the occurrence of natural processes. If we do not understand, then we will say “well, this was the will of God”. Which is good thing in that concept then in that case we have accepted what happened then we should not keep on thinking about the reasons because we have not been able to find the reason at the first place, then we should move on. That’s, I think, under that kind of thinking, the concept of one God is a very good one. And this philosophy says, that people should not kill each other on the basis of religions. People should only be judged on the basis of their own qualities. And no matter black, blue, brown, or a person wear this dress or that dress, it should not make any difference. And we are all brothers and sisters, and mothers also, and fathers, and that is the way we should look around in this world.

Fellner: What is your favorite part of America, like it could be either a physical object, or just an overall concept of what is your favorite part of America opposed to India?

Sandhu: (In deep thought) Favorite, I already told you. I see less corruption here. You mean object? Object, all objects are objects, there are objects everywhere, but, to me, most important thing, for me, is the people around me. For example, most important person, away from my family at home, is your own Dad. Its honest (pounds desk), he will come basically number 1 (pounds desk) even in this entire faculty, you see that. So, he is most important to me. And sometime if something happens to him, or I come to know, I feel it, whether I express it that explicitly or not that is a different story, but, I feel inside because anything bad would happen to your Dad, Dr. Joe Fellner, should not happen, because anybody who has worked with me, or is currently working and so close that your Dad is, by the way, I feel it very strongly. And sometime I talk with my own children. (reflective) I should not keep on going on that, but I feel it actually, so that is most important. I can go on many things, but, point is that is most important.

ANALYSIS
The appeal of the U.S. is the freedom to do what you couldn’t do in other countries. Even if that intent is not applicable for certain immigrants, the idea of it is as I now know, incredibly appealing. In this particular example, Dr. Sandhu says that he came to the U.S. since he was impressed with the principles of the U.S. Constitution, equality between men and women, and so he could “teach and perform research with freedom”. Freedom is a common motivation when it comes to immigration in the U.S., also the major motivation for the Puritans in the 1600s; they didn’t like the way the church was run, so they made their own church.

Another factor contributing to the immigration of Dr. Sandhu to the U.S. were his unique and needed professional skills (Ph.D. in Engineering) and the passage of the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act which is also known as the Hart-Celler Act. Passage of this Act abolished the “national origins” system established in 1924 and allowed for a quota and preference system that allowed more individuals to emigrate to the U.S. from third world countries; including Asians. One of the criteria for admittance to the U.S. under this Act is needed professional skills. Between the years of 1870-1965, a total of 16,013 Indians immigrated to the U.S. and the first decade following passage of the Act, 96,375 Indians immigrated; mostly under the needed professional skills preference.